Nations of the European Union

Nations of the European Union

Sat, 2016-06-11 11:30

Ooer, political.
A reasoned argument for remaining in the E.U. will be here when I find time to write it.
Meantime there is this on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0EBKRm9s74
Or, on immigration, the wonderful Stewart Lee - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HMhWB95ldQ
Nice sweary pro-remain at - https://medium.com/@williamgadsbypeet/project-fear-is-a-fitting-name-you...
Feel free to use the cat image. With all due modesty it is more attractive than any other campaign material I have seen.

June 13th. Arguments for and against staying in the European Union are media wide and available to the undecided. A good deal of it is perverse, bad tempered and irrational but there if you want it. My rehearsing them here seemed a waste particularly since on reflection I find my own preference for remaining in the European Union is in essence based simply on my favouring cooperation over competition - people working together for mutual benefit rather than individuals fighting to get on top.

Cats say stay.
The majority of the scientific community says stay.
The most respected economists say stay.
The majority of trade unions say stay.
Those most concerned with the environment and climate change say stay.

June 15th. The following, compiled by Calvin Morris on Facebook, was sent to me. The issue it raises is one of trust. I have heard folk say they don't trust any of them. Apart from being rather sad it also suggests a mind made up and reluctant to be confused with the facts.
Anyway , here is the Facebook thing. I guess Calvin won't mind my using it.

A good friend of mine came up with a great idea. If you don't have the time/inclination to find out all the facts about the EU referendum (I don't blame you) and are possibly unsure which way to vote, perhaps knowing how other notable people are thinking could help out.

Here are a few that strongly believe the UK should remain a member of the EU:

• Governor of the Bank of England
• International Monetary Fund
• Institute for Fiscal Studies
• Confederation of British Industry
• Leaders/heads of state of every single other member of the EU
• President of the United States of America
• Eight former US Treasury Secretaries
• President of China
• Prime Minister of India
• Prime Minister of Canada
• Prime Minister of Australia
• Prime Minister of Japan
• Prime Minister of New Zealand
• The chief executives of most of the top 100 companies in the UK including Marks and Spencer, BT, Asda, Vodafone, Virgin, IBM, BMW etc.
• Kofi Annan, the former Secretary General of the United Nations
• All living former Prime Ministers of the UK (from both parties)
• Virtually all reputable and recognised economists
• The Prime Minister of the UK
• The leader of the Labour Party
• The Leader of the Liberal Democrats
• The Leader of the Green Party
• The Leader of the Scottish National Party
• The leader of Plaid Cymru
• Leader of Sinn Fein
• Martin Lewis, that money saving dude off the telly
• The Secretary General of the TUC
• Unison
• National Union of Students
• National Union of Farmers
• Stephen Hawking
• Chief Executive of the NHS
• 300 of the most prominent international historians
• Director of Europol
• David Anderson QC, Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation
• Former Directors of GCHQ
• Secretary General of Nato
• Church of England
• Church in Scotland
• Church in Wales
• Friends of the Earth
• Greenpeace
• Director General of the World Trade Organisation
• WWF
• World Bank
• OECD

Here are pretty much the only notable people who think we should leave the EU:

• Boris Johnson, who probably doesn’t really care either way, but knows he’ll become Prime Minister if the country votes to leave
• A former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions who carried out a brutal regime of cuts to benefits and essential support for the poorest in society as well as the disabled and sick
• That idiot that was Education Secretary and every single teacher in the country hated with a furious passion for the damage he was doing to the education system
• Leader of UKIP
• BNP
• Britain First
• Donald Trump
• Keith Chegwin
• David Icke

So, as I said, if you can’t be bothered to look into the real facts and implications of all this in/out stuff, just pick the list that you most trust and vote that way. It really couldn’t be more simple.

And if you are unsure about leaving, don't.

June 17th - Here's me feeling unsettled by how unpleasant the leave campaign has become and nervous about how ugly is the kind of future they seem to promise.
June 20th. If you have the patience and willingness to listen there is a talk by University of Liverpool Law School’s Professor Michael Dougan in which he describes the national and international legal ramifications of leaving the European Union - https://www.facebook.com/UniversityofLiverpool/videos/1293361974024537/

June 22nd. Just added above the chart of prominent people and organisations with their In or Out preference. In doing so I am conscious of the fact that there is an emotional element to the choice. That does not excuse turning ones back on the facts as known. Gove has said not to trust the experts. What then? - follow the lead of the loudest? put your faith in the ill-informed? Not something one would do in a medical situation. The appeal to Un-reason is scary.

June 23rd. Oh dear.

Ooer, political.
A reasoned argument for remaining in the E.U. will be here when I find time to write it.
Meantime there is this on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0EBKRm9s74
Or, on immigration, the wonderful Stewart Lee - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HMhWB95ldQ
Nice sweary pro-remain at - https://medium.com/@williamgadsbypeet/project-fear-is-a-fitting-name-you...
Feel free to use the cat image. With all due modesty it is more attractive than any other campaign material I have seen.

June 13th. Arguments for and against staying in the European Union are media wide and available to the undecided. A good deal of it is perverse, bad tempered and irrational but there if you want it. My rehearsing them here seemed a waste particularly since on reflection I find my own preference for remaining in the European Union is in essence based simply on my favouring cooperation over competition - people working together for mutual benefit rather than individuals fighting to get on top.

Cats say stay.
The majority of the scientific community says stay.
The most respected economists say stay.
The majority of trade unions say stay.
Those most concerned with the environment and climate change say stay.

June 15th. The following, compiled by Calvin Morris on Facebook, was sent to me. The issue it raises is one of trust. I have heard folk say they don't trust any of them. Apart from being rather sad it also suggests a mind made up and reluctant to be confused with the facts.
Anyway , here is the Facebook thing. I guess Calvin won't mind my using it.

A good friend of mine came up with a great idea. If you don't have the time/inclination to find out all the facts about the EU referendum (I don't blame you) and are possibly unsure which way to vote, perhaps knowing how other notable people are thinking could help out.

Here are a few that strongly believe the UK should remain a member of the EU:

• Governor of the Bank of England
• International Monetary Fund
• Institute for Fiscal Studies
• Confederation of British Industry
• Leaders/heads of state of every single other member of the EU
• President of the United States of America
• Eight former US Treasury Secretaries
• President of China
• Prime Minister of India
• Prime Minister of Canada
• Prime Minister of Australia
• Prime Minister of Japan
• Prime Minister of New Zealand
• The chief executives of most of the top 100 companies in the UK including Marks and Spencer, BT, Asda, Vodafone, Virgin, IBM, BMW etc.
• Kofi Annan, the former Secretary General of the United Nations
• All living former Prime Ministers of the UK (from both parties)
• Virtually all reputable and recognised economists
• The Prime Minister of the UK
• The leader of the Labour Party
• The Leader of the Liberal Democrats
• The Leader of the Green Party
• The Leader of the Scottish National Party
• The leader of Plaid Cymru
• Leader of Sinn Fein
• Martin Lewis, that money saving dude off the telly
• The Secretary General of the TUC
• Unison
• National Union of Students
• National Union of Farmers
• Stephen Hawking
• Chief Executive of the NHS
• 300 of the most prominent international historians
• Director of Europol
• David Anderson QC, Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation
• Former Directors of GCHQ
• Secretary General of Nato
• Church of England
• Church in Scotland
• Church in Wales
• Friends of the Earth
• Greenpeace
• Director General of the World Trade Organisation
• WWF
• World Bank
• OECD

Here are pretty much the only notable people who think we should leave the EU:

• Boris Johnson, who probably doesn’t really care either way, but knows he’ll become Prime Minister if the country votes to leave
• A former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions who carried out a brutal regime of cuts to benefits and essential support for the poorest in society as well as the disabled and sick
• That idiot that was Education Secretary and every single teacher in the country hated with a furious passion for the damage he was doing to the education system
• Leader of UKIP
• BNP
• Britain First
• Donald Trump
• Keith Chegwin
• David Icke

So, as I said, if you can’t be bothered to look into the real facts and implications of all this in/out stuff, just pick the list that you most trust and vote that way. It really couldn’t be more simple.

And if you are unsure about leaving, don't.

June 17th - Here's me feeling unsettled by how unpleasant the leave campaign has become and nervous about how ugly is the kind of future they seem to promise.
June 20th. If you have the patience and willingness to listen there is a talk by University of Liverpool Law School’s Professor Michael Dougan in which he describes the national and international legal ramifications of leaving the European Union - https://www.facebook.com/UniversityofLiverpool/videos/1293361974024537/

June 22nd. Just added above the chart of prominent people and organisations with their In or Out preference. In doing so I am conscious of the fact that there is an emotional element to the choice. That does not excuse turning ones back on the facts as known. Gove has said not to trust the experts. What then? - follow the lead of the loudest? put your faith in the ill-informed? Not something one would do in a medical situation. The appeal to Un-reason is scary.

June 23rd. Oh dear.

Comments

Stronger together!

Hullo Andrea,

one would think so.

Best,
Arthur

And despite all this, millions voted to leave. (Wonder if they're the same millions who think the X-Factor is for real?)
That's the problem with giving the vote to those not competent to use it.
A great summary - wish I'd seen it before the vote - I'd have forwarded it.

Hullo Tim,

I sympathise with your pain but have a problem with the suggestion that the result was due to some of us being incompetent to vote. Additionally, if there are such people it seems unlikely they were all on the one side.
Whatever, I guess we shall have to learn to live with it.
Thank you but I can't take credit for either of the summaries which were sent to me.

All the best,
Arthur

Hullo Tim,

this is not a site for political discussion but there is something I wanted to add.
After the result of the referendum there was the experience of being estranged from my country, that it was not the place I imagined or wanted it to be.
That day I heard an interview with an 'out' voter in which she said more or less the same thing as the reason for voting the way she did. Her situation was such that she felt neglected and overlooked. She believed this was due to the UK being in the European Union. I think her conclusion was wrong but it is understandable given that there were many voices telling her that was the case.
Now that it is done it is up to both sides of the argument try to create an atmosphere in society which will exclude none of us. If that women's concerns about jobs, housing etc. are addressed, great. If my fears about climate change, human rights, etc are addressed, fine.

That's probably enough already.
Best,
Arthur

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